Bennett’s 30-year career has seen him work both in Aotearoa and the UK. After founding and managing TBWA\’s PR arm Eleven, he went on to establish One Plus One in 2013.

Now 12 years old, the business is going from strength to strength.

What does a typical day look like for you?

Honestly, most of my working days are a privilege and a pleasure. I tend to wake up before 6:00am. Then I check my phone, look at news and emails for a bit, and I’m often out the door for a quick run. I’ll probably have a lengthy chat with my friend and business partner Max Burt and spend time supporting our awesome clients. Bluntly, I’m usually trying to hustle something or ‘on the make’, as someone once charitably described my professional operating style. Nowadays, more often than not, I’m working on the business as opposed to in it, which is testament to the recent success and growth we’ve enjoyed.

What initially drew you to PR, and what keeps you passionate about it today?

I studied art history at university, then did a journalism degree. My first ever ‘proper’ job in the communications industry was in the TVNZ newsroom, starting at 11:00pm and working through until the early morning. I was the only one there, essentially to make sure that if something significant happened, a cameraman or journalist were dispatched to the scene. That stint with the Fourth Estate lasted six months and then I blagged the first entry level PR gig I could get, to be honest. Perhaps, in retrospect and without getting too glassy eyed, you could say I wanted to create news and not chase it.

With over 30 years of experience, what do you believe makes PR truly effective?

Lots of things need to happen at any one time to make something that you are communicating effective. Ultimately, I reckon it comes down to follow through and execution. Managing expectations. Making stuff happen. Then rinsing and repeating but getting incrementally better as you go along. That’s pretty much it.

What does winning awards mean to you personally?

Well, now that we’ve won a few and know what it feels like, to be able to say with confidence and conviction we’re the PRINZ 2025 Agency of the Year feels absolutely brilliant! It’s a way of validating the growth, development and maturity of our business, which I’m exceptionally proud of. I’m a competitive person, and as a team we want to stay quietly ambitious and win more and more of them!

How would you describe your leadership style?

Fair? Devolved? I’m not even sure I have one, to be honest, and if I did it wouldn’t be for me to say. I asked Max and he said: “free-range, organic and pesticide free”.

How do you balance work and personal life?

We work Monday, Wednesday and Thursday in our Parnell office – it suits us well and breaks up the week. On Tuesdays, I often work at Piha looking over the ocean and can get stuff done there that our office just won’t allow. After 12-consecutive years of growth, I’ve realised you have to pace yourself and take steps in and out of the business. I’m super fortunate we’re doing so well, although I often think that’s only come about because of lots of hard graft and consistently showing up, day after day.

Do you have a mentor who’s shaped how you work or lead?

Ironically, I’ve realised in later life it’s actually David Walden, former CEO of TBWA. A charismatic throwback to the Mad Men era. He was also kind-hearted, ambitious, encouraging, and street smart with it. I’ve tried to take the best, and reject the worst, of my influential time working alongside him.

Do you follow any business philosophy?

Presently, it’s neatly summarised by advertising icon Sir John Hegarty, who I was fortunate to reconnect with again earlier this year. The BBH (Bartle Bogle Hegarty) founder encourages us all to “do interesting things and interesting things will happen to you.” And he does this by maintaining a world view that’s curious, creative and proactive. We try to channel this attitude and ethos through all our efforts and outputs at One Plus One.

Green stepped into the role in 2022, with three children under the age of four. Since then, she has led the family-owned business to impressive growth – achieving a 13% revenue increase, opening two new stores and significantly expanding manufacturing capabilities – all amid a cost of living crisis.

As the Managing Director of a medium-sized enterprise and a mum of three, what does your typical day look like?

No two days are ever quite the same – and that’s exactly what I love and thrive on. My mornings start early – if I’m not at head office by 6am, I’m prepping lunchboxes and making sure everyone’s out the door. Then it’s a quick shift – from the chaos of home to the structure of business.

As Managing Director of a growing manufacturing and retail business, my days are a juggle of big-picture strategy and hands-on execution. I might start with planning, then head into store visits, supplier or team meetings and later dive into product innovation or operations. A huge part of my role is putting out fires – from logistics to team challenges – while keeping everyone focused and supported.

Raising a young family while scaling a business takes resilience, discipline and clear boundaries. I don’t pretend to do it all perfectly, but I’m deeply committed to both. It’s not always balanced, but it’s incredibly fulfilling.

What is it about entrepreneurship that appeals to you most?

For me, entrepreneurship is equal parts challenge and opportunity – and I’m wired for both. I love shaping vision, then building the strategy, systems and people to bring it to life.

Business leadership comes with a unique sense of ownership – the wins are deeply rewarding, and the setbacks teach you fast. It’s a wild rollercoaster ride.

What drives me most is the impact – creating jobs, innovating in a traditional industry, supporting local suppliers and delivering real value to customers.

Entrepreneurship also fuels personal growth. It stretches you emotionally, mentally and professionally – demanding clarity, resilience and adaptability.

What business philosophy has shaped your approach to leadership?

One of the biggest lessons I’ve learned is that momentum matters more than perfection.

In a fast-paced business, waiting for perfect can mean missing opportunity. I aim to back informed action and avoid overanalysing – especially with two-way door decisions, where you can easily pivot if needed. This mindset gives our team more freedom and builds trust, empowering them to take initiative and try new ideas.

Leadership is also about growing people, not just the business. When your team grows, the business grows – so this year, we’re focused on supporting our team’s development.

What advice would you give to married couples who run a business together?

One of our earliest and most valuable lessons was setting clear roles – at work and at home. When your partner is also your business partner, clear boundaries reduce friction and empower each of you to operate with confidence.

Equally important is making intentional time for your relationship. A strong partnership supports both your family and business – without that foundation, everything else becomes harder.

The ability to laugh, disagree constructively and still enjoy each other’s company is key.

And as cliché as it is, COMMUNICATION, ALWAYS.

What’s your top advice for other mums in leadership roles?

Don’t chase balance – it’s not the goal. Life as a mother and a leader is more like a pendulum. Some seasons, your business needs more of you; other times, your children will – and that’s okay. Give yourself permission to be fully present where you are, without guilt.

Leadership and motherhood are both demanding, emotional and unpredictable. Be kind to yourself. Progress, not perfection, is the real power move.

I’ve also come to realise that pursuing bold goals isn’t despite my children – it’s because of them. They’re watching how I face challenges and pursue my passions. Each act of resilience becomes a blueprint for what they believe is possible. It’s not just permission – it’s a responsibility to lead with purpose.

As CEO of the Restaurant Association, her role spans a wide range of responsibilities, from negotiating policy changes with government officials to launching initiatives such as the Kai Keepers programme, which aims to reduce food waste within hospitality businesses.

As CEO of the Restaurant Association of New Zealand, what does your typical day look like?

My days usually start with coffee and a quick scan of the headlines to see what the industry might be waking up to. From there, it’s a mix of meetings with boards, media interviews and cross-sector collaboration.

I run a national organisation – overseeing our internal team while also managing relationships with government, suppliers, small businesses, sponsors and community groups.

The Restaurant Association is a not-for-profit, which brings its own unique dynamics: limited resourcing, big expectations and a to do list that’s ever evolving.

On any given day, I might be helping a business owner navigate a crisis or leading the charge to get immigration settings changed to keep businesses staffed.

It’s about raising awareness of the challenges our industry faces and proposing solutions to make doing business easier for our members.

No two days are the same, but the mission is: Back the industry. Make it better.

What first drew you to the hospitality industry, and what continues to inspire you today?

Like many, I started in hospitality while studying. But what kept me here was the sense of whānau. This industry wraps around people, feeding them both literally and figuratively. When you’re part of it, you’re never just working for a business – you are the business.

I moved from the floor to employment relations, leadership and advocacy – from service to systems. What inspires me now is the resilience of our people. Every time the economy takes a hit, hospitality shows up first and recovers last. Operators dig deep, create, serve and stay. They’re truly inspiring, and I love working with them.

Has the launch of Kai Keepers influenced your leadership style in hospitality? If so, how?

Kai Keepers reminded me that leadership in hospitality isn’t just about revenue or regulation – it’s about responsibility.

It asked a very simple but powerful question: what happens to the food we don’t serve? And by extension – what kind of industry are we building?

While we fight for better margins, we also look out for our wider community and environment.

As a leader, that means making decisions not just because they’re commercially smart, but because they’re the right thing to do.

What do you see as the biggest challenges facing New Zealand’s hospitality sector in 2025?

It’s tempting to say “staffing or skills shortage” and leave it at that. But the truth is more layered. Yes, we’re still short on people – but that’s the symptom, not the cause.

The real challenge is perception. Hospitality is still seen by some as a stopgap – a job you take on the way to something else. That narrative costs us talent, investment and influence.

Add to that a perfect storm of rising costs, regulatory pressure, burnout and the expectation to somehow innovate while staying open seven days a week and you get an industry that’s running on fumes.

But in 2025, our challenge isn’t just to survive. It’s to shift the narrative. To build businesses that are financially sustainable. That’s what I’m focused on.

How do you and the Association support restaurant owners in navigating these challenges?

We listen first. That might sound simple, but it’s powerful.

We don’t sit in an office dreaming up ideas in isolation – we talk to our members. We hear the stress in their voices when wage bills climb, immigration policies shift or the costs of doing business rise again.

And then we act. Sometimes that looks like lobbying in Wellington, pushing for practical changes that actually make sense on the ground.

Other times, it’s delivering real-time advice through our helpline – legal, HR, compliance – on the issues that can make or break a small business.

We also build capability. Through training, mentoring and digital tools. We help business owners grow – not just survive.

Our job isn’t to run their restaurants for them. It’s to clear the path so they can do what they do best: serve people, create moments and build community.

In what ways has your previous experience shaped your leadership at the Restaurant Association?

My leadership journey hasn’t been linear, and that’s been a strength.

I started in hospitality while at university, working my way up from waiting tables to assistant manager. Those early experiences instilled in me the value of hard work.

Before becoming CEO, I managed the Association’s professional development and led its employment relations. I then moved to the infrastructure sector, where I gained experience in collective bargaining and large-scale employment relations.

Now, as CEO of a not-for-profit, I balance policy advocacy, workforce development and member support, all while staying true to our mission: uplifting New Zealand’s hospitality sector.

Serving on boards and advisory groups taught me how to turn grassroots issues into systemic change. Navigating both business and government has been essential in this role.

What’s shaped me most is having a strong support network. Leadership, to me, is about showing up in the messy moments and fighting for what matters when no one’s looking.

What is your top advice for those looking to thrive in New Zealand’s hospitality industry?

Know your “why.” Owning a business will stretch you – mentally, physically, emotionally. You’ve got to love it, or at least love what it stands for.

Also, forget the myth of the solo hero. Build good teams. Hire people who complement your knowledge gaps and never stop learning – whether it’s new tech, new trends or just new ways to be a better leader.

Finally, don’t lose sight of the magic. Hospitality isn’t just a job. It’s an act of generosity. We create places where people celebrate, grieve, connect and belong. That’s a privilege.

As CEO of PH Digital, what does your typical day look like?

Scaling a business while serving nearly 200 clients, including many category leaders, requires energy, commitment and focus.
My day starts early at 7am, combining focused work, responding to important emails and setting priorities while walking 10,000 steps on my desk walker.
From 9am, my schedule balances strategic leadership with hands-on involvement. I work with my senior team to drive growth, refine our services and stay ahead of industry trends.
While I focus on coaching and developing our team to ensure they deliver exceptional results, I also dedicate time to client strategy, optimising campaign performance and leading new client acquisition efforts.
I aim to leave the office by 6pm to unwind with my husband and two cats, though we often end up discussing business.

How did you go from ballet dancing to digital marketing?

Ballet taught me precision, discipline, and the ability to make the impossible look effortless – qualities that have shaped my career.
I started ballet at three, performed in France, and taught in London while balancing a hospitality career that led to a chef role with a Royal Warrant-holding catering company.
This experience led me to The Ritz, where I gained expertise in brand storytelling, high-end service and luxury marketing.
Returning to New Zealand, I took senior roles at Robertson Lodges and Langham Hospitality Group, honing my skills in luxury brand strategy.
In 2018, I joined Webb’s, New Zealand’s longest-running auction house, where I expanded its business, tripled auction numbers and led innovative digital marketing strategies.
My journey from ballet to luxury branding and digital marketing brought me to PH Digital, where I help businesses grow, scale and stand out.

Your company has recently undergone a rebrand and ownership change. What’s next?

We’re committed to delivering exceptional service by building the best team in New Zealand, enhancing our infrastructure and refining our operations for maximum efficiency.
This enables us to focus more on client strategy and drive stronger performance, ensuring our work is ROI-driven and profitable.
We’re also expanding our client portfolio, targeting category leaders across NZ and Australia, with a focus on generating real financial impact as the market corrects.
Looking ahead, we plan to establish a permanent PH Digital headquarters in Australia when the timing aligns for international expansion.

How would you describe your leadership style?

My leadership style is built on high expectations and high support.
I set ambitious goals and hold myself and my team to the highest standards, fostering a culture of accountability and excellence. At the same time, I believe in empowering my team by making them feel valued, supported and confident to take ownership of their work.
I’m invested in their growth, both professionally and personally, providing the tools, trust and space to step up while guiding and challenging them when necessary.
I lead with empathy, transparency and decisiveness, always ensuring open communication and clarity behind decisions. Though I maintain unrelenting standards, I believe being authentic and people-focused is a strength that helps cultivate a high-performance culture where talent is nurtured and results speak for themselves.
True leadership, for me, is about balancing when to push and when to support, always holding everyone – including myself – to the highest level.

How influential are luxury brands in the marketing landscape?

Luxury brands may target a niche market, but their influence on marketing is profound, setting benchmarks for brand positioning, customer experience and digital strategy.
In New Zealand, brands like Faradays and international luxury houses shape trends through exclusivity, premium storytelling and curated experiences, pushing mainstream brands to elevate their approach.
However, NZ’s small ultra-high-net-worth consumer base presents challenges, along with the need to adapt to e-commerce and evolving cultural preferences.
The rise of sustainable luxury is also reshaping the industry, emphasizing craftsmanship and ethical sourcing, while brands must balance exclusivity with digital accessibility and shifting consumer expectations.

What are the biggest marketing trends you expect to see in 2025?

In 2025, marketing in New Zealand will be defined by AI-driven personalisation, privacy-first strategies and a focus on authenticity and sustainability.
AI will power hyper-targeted content, predictive analytics and automated customer experiences, while privacy regulations push brands to rely on first-party data.
Consumers will expect tangible sustainability actions, and influencer marketing will shift towards micro and niche creators for deeper trust.
At PH Digital, we prioritise a smarter, more strategic approach to performance marketing that balances short-term results with long-term brand building.
Strong brands drive higher prices, greater market share and competitive advantage.
We focus on holistic strategies that align performance marketing with broader business goals, ensuring our clients’ marketing efforts deliver sustainable, value-driven outcomes and long-term success.

What is your best piece of advice for other women in business?

As a young female CEO, I’ve learned that leadership is about showing up as my authentic self, not fitting into a mould.
Early on, I tried to mirror the tough, unyielding leadership styles of my (mostly) male bosses. But I soon realised that true leadership is about fostering collaboration, valuing people beyond their output and creating an environment where the best ideas can rise.
The version of me that makes the biggest impact is the one who leads with empathy, adaptability and a commitment to both supporting my team and driving meaningful commercial change. My advice is simple: be yourself – it’s more than enough.

The business imports artisan and disruptor brands from McClure’s Pickles, Seedlip distilled non-alcoholic spirits, Fair Trade chocolate brand Tony’s Chocolonely, and more.

Behind the scenes, Nick and Becs look after everything, from distribution to retail, to social media, advertising, marketing, and campaigns.

For Nick, his role involves getting products to New Zealand and into stores and supermarkets nationwide. This involves late-night calls and bidding on auctions to get space on trucks and ships.

Becs’ role is working out what to do with the products from a marketing perspective – managing social campaigns, marketing campaigns, and late-night calls with HQ’s in the US, UK, and Netherlands.

Here, we chat with Nick about what a day in his work-life looks like.

What time do you wake up?

When our kids do… that’s usually around 6am!

What kind of work do you do? 

Together with Becs, my wife we run food and beverage importing company Cook & Nelson bringing epic products like Seedlip Non-alcoholic spirits,  McClure’s Pickles and Tony’s Chocolonely into New Zealand. 

We also have a food manufacturing company Huffman’s Sauces based in Wellington and are involved in another project making Good Sh*t Sodas right here in Auckland… it’s fair to say our pantry is well stocked!

What’s the ideal way to start your day? 

I like to get straight into it with a coffee and out the door to get stuck into my day asap… Becs is more of a night owl and tends to take the opposite approach, often working late which helps when we are working with suppliers on the other side of the world.

Do you have any morning rituals? After grabbing my coffee I go… Becs will share her toast (Vogels with Fix & Fogg) with Ralph our dog and then take him for a walk after getting our children Ella and Harry sorted for the day and then she gets into it…

How soon do you begin doing work-related things each morning, such as checking phone or emails? 

I check my emails on my phone pretty much straight away, first discarding anything not relevant and leaving the rest to tackle when I get into the office. Then I’ll check the news here and overseas. Lastly I’ll look at exchange rates!

What’s your media consumption or interaction like – which podcasts, radio, videos, books, magazines, and new sites do you read or listen to?

I listen to RNZ National radio on my way into work unless I’m avoiding the Formula 1 results in which case I’ll usually listen to a playlist or else a podcast… I’m a fan of WTF with Marc Maron… whilst I’m at work I don’t like any distractions so tend to be head down… evenings are Netflix and I read to wind down. Becs has rituals around the MiNDFOOD crossword and is an explorer of lots of sites, especially overseas food and beverage start-ups etc… that’s how she winds down.

What do you think is unique about the way you approach your work? 

We’ve been told that our approach to working with the people and brands we represent under Cook & Nelson is unusual in that we do a lot more than a traditional distributor might, taking on the services an agency or others might usually perform. For us, as with Huffman’s and Good Sh*t, it’s about doing right by the products, doing everything within our capabilities to do them justice and give them the best chance of success here… we work as a collective with people who are brilliant at what they do, each of us focusing on what we are good at and like doing. This makes what we do, close to who we are, which makes everyday a whole lot more fun that it might otherwise be!

What responsibility do you have in a typical day?

What takes up most of your time? Currently my role with Cook & Nelson is focussed on getting our products into the country and on to the shelf… so I work with our suppliers on lead-in times for production, our shipping agents on getting the products here, our main stockists with ranging and compliance etc. Whilst with Good Sh*t I’m looking at export opportunities. With Huffman’s it’s everything! 

Becs is focussed on getting our products off the shelf so she’ll work on promotions and sales initiatives as well as driving our social media.

Where do your best ideas come from? 

Usually I have my best ideas when I’m not actively pursuing them. I like to walk and I will generally have what could be a good idea sometime on the walk or shortly after! I look for inspiration in all sorts of places, and often find it in the things that people with passion are doing that they most love.

What has been the most transformational business practice you’ve implemented at your work? 

Committing to working remotely and creating strong logistics partnerships that have enabled us to focus our resources on those things that will grow our business. For me, real growth has come from letting go, trusting others, acknowledging what I’m good at and what I’m not –  and resourcing accordingly.

What social or environmental issues inform the work you do, as well as what you’re aiming to do with your company’s overall vision?

This is a big one. We try to put our values at the heart of what we do and that includes how we work, who we work with, and what our impact is environmentally and socially. Minimising and offsetting our emissions. Sourcing responsibly; seeking products, companies and people who have a wider environmental and social plan. We challenge ourselves every day to look at ways we can work better and we are committed to becoming B-Corp certified not as an end goal rather as a way of ensuring we hit a high standard across all measures and keep hitting it.

What’s the most enjoyable part of your day?

Most days bring challenges and if I feel I’ve risen to them and met the challenge in good heart, conducted myself well and learnt something, then I really feel satisfied and that for me is probably the biggest reward. I also get great satisfaction from sharing our mission with the great people we work with, and in those moments when I’m aware of how we are pulling together in the same direction, with a sense of common purpose… it’s great.

What about the least enjoyable? 

Some things that are beyond our control like shipping delays or damaged goods can be quite frustrating to deal with at times…

Do you have any side hustles you’re juggling alongside being an entrepreneur? 

Sort of though I’m not sure it could be described as a hustle… but I recently returned to bell ringing which I did in the village I grew up in England as a child. I’m terrible and I can see it may take me many years to become even passable but I have a mentor who has rung for more than 55 years who is incredibly generous with his time in helping me along.…It’s something I’m really committed to. 

I also take both our children to Little Ninjas even week and it’s wonderful to see how they’re developing there. Whether I will become a competition dad or not remains to be seen!

What’s your best productivity hack?

I don’t put things off till later. I prioritise the things I need to do and do them and I’ll tackle the stuff I least want to do first… that’s a winning hack!

Do you get stressed? If so, how do you manage it? Do you practice any mindfulness or meditation?

 I probably do get stressed but I try to channel it into taking action… also I exercise with a trainer Steve Kumo who pushes me hard and that’s great because when all I can think about is the need to breathe I find there’s little room for anything else… and I’ve recently taken up sitting in the sea at high tide when it’s cold and trying to slow breathe and it’s been fantastic as a quick and intense way to relax!

What do you do once you get home? Can you switch off?

I can switch off… and what helps enormously is doing as complete a brain dump as I can of things I need to do or that are bothering me that I need to address, as a to-do list at the end of my work day for the next day… then I don’t look at my phone or emails and I focus on our children home life etc… trying to be present there.

What do or don’t you eat or drink to maintain your performance throughout the day? 

I don’t eat meat anymore or dairy, drink alcohol or eat flour potatoes or rice… basically its lots of fruit, vegetables and nuts which may all sound quite restrictive but I find it makes me more conscious than I was, of what I eat, and that engages me with food and my energy levels are better, resilience better and I sleep better.

What time do you go to sleep? How many hours sleep do you try to get each night? Any special techniques for a good night’s rest? I try to go to bed early-ish, around 9:30 and read for a bit and hope for eight hours sleep. I feel goodish if I get seven-plus hours … for me I try not to think about work or talk about it which can be hard when we work and live together but if I can leave work at work slowdown, read and not eat too late then I generally get a good night and that makes the next day an easier one… 

BetterSaver is an online advice platform which allows people to see if they are in the right KiwiSaver fund for them and considers factors such as life stage, personal ethics, and fees to determine the best fund match for you.

What time do you wake up?

This can vary a lot, but on a normal day my alarm goes off at 7am. Then I’m out of bed, showered, coffee’d and in the office for my first meeting of the day by 8am.

What kind of work do you do?

I’m founder and CEO of the online KiwiSaver advice startup, BetterSaver. We help KiwiSaver investors maximise their returns while putting money behind businesses that align with their personal values and beliefs.

What’s the ideal way to start your day?

With a cup of coffee and a bacon and egg muffin for breakfast with my wife Michelle.

Do you have any morning rituals?

Nothing special – just coffee and a glass of water.

How soon do you begin doing work-related things each morning, such as checking phone or emails?

I check for any urgent messages from my team first thing in the morning. Other than that, I don’t start work until I hit the office at 8am.

What’s your media consumption or interaction like – which podcasts, radio, videos, books, magazines, and new sites do you read or listen to?

Media is an important source of public opinion on KiwiSaver and personal financing, so I hit the news sites a couple of times each day to stay up to date with the latest news.

What do you think is unique about the way you approach your work?

I like to operate with a high level of trust. I trust the people around me to do what they say they’ll do, and I hope others will trust me to do the same. It’s the same approach for BetterSaver too – we’re focused on delivering personalised advice because people put trust in us to provide them with reliable financial information.

What responsibility do you have in a typical day? What takes up most of your time?

BetterSaver is a startup, and as the founder and CEO my responsibilities vary day in day out. I have my hand on all parts of the business and make sure we have what we need to achieve our goals, be it money, people, or equipment.

Where do your best ideas come from?

My best ideas come to me when I’m by myself staring at the ocean with no other distractions.

What has been the most transformational business practice you’ve implemented at your work?

Startups work best when each member is empowered to be creative and work with autonomy. I like to let people do their job without me getting in their way, providing them with support and resources where and when needed.

What social or environmental issues inform the work you do, as well as what you’re aiming to do with your company’s overall vision?

BetterSaver at its core is about helping people do better with their KiwiSaver. We want to help people achieve their financial goals whether that be buying a house or saving for retirement. We believe that a solid financial foundation will lead to a healthier and happier life.

What’s the most enjoyable part of your day?

Every morning I wake up excited about my day, so I guess waking up is the most enjoyable part of my day.

What about the least enjoyable?

All ups come with an eventual down. I’m an upbeat kind of person so it can be mentally exhausting at times.

Do you have any side hustles you’re juggling alongside being an entrepreneur?

Not right now. My main priorities are BetterSaver, my family, and friends – not necessarily in that order!

What’s your best productivity hack?

Set aside some time each day where you have nothing to distract yourself.

Do you get stressed? If so, how do you manage it? Do you practice any mindfulness or meditation?

I have always dealt with a high level of anxiety and stress. The best trick is to eat well, exercise consistently, spend time with family and friends, and talk with a professional when you hit the wall.

What do you do once you get home? Can you switch off?

I find it very hard to switch off. When I get home I either go straight into cooking dinner for me and my wife, or half pass out on the couch until dinner is ready. On holidays it takes me a good three days before I am switched off.

What do or don’t you eat or drink to maintain your performance throughout the day?

I limit my coffee to two cups a day to avoid getting jittery or anxious. I also keep myself hydrated by drinking a jug of water each day. Throughout the week I try to eat well, but I do enjoy burgers and pizza so don’t always end up eating well – especially on the weekends.

What time do you go to sleep? How many hours sleep do you try to get each night? Any special techniques for a good night’s rest?

These days I try to get to bed around 11pm so I can get eight hours of sleep each night. I tend to sleep late when I work from home, so I try not to bring work to home.

My only tip for a good night’s rest is to figure out a routine that works for you and stick to it. For example, it takes me a while to switch off from my day, so I try not to work before bed. Otherwise, I could stay awake thinking about work all night.

What kind of work do you do?
I’m the Chief Creative Officer at Stanley St, NZ largest indi advertising agency. My role is managing the creative department and maintaining the quality of the creative product.

What’s the ideal way to start your day?
Well, it would be waking up at a time of my choosing. Then going back to sleep. Reading the newspaper in bed with a coffee in hand… I miss those days.

Do you have any morning rituals?
My wife and I have added to our daily routine 15-20 minutes of yoga stretching each morning. 
I have definitely noticed that I don’t make that ‘old man’ groan so often when I pick something off the ground. 

How soon do you begin doing work-related things each morning, such as checking phone or emails?
I know I shouldn’t, but I check my emails on my phone minutes after waking.

What’s your media consumption or interaction like – which podcasts, radio, videos, books, magazines, and new sites do you read or listen to?
I’m one of the three people over 40 on Tik Tok, but seriously this app is amazing for entrepreneurs and marketers. The algorithm changes the content to whatever you’re interested in, and in my case, my stream is full of amazing tips from billionaires, investors, SEO experts and marketers… All bite size, and to the point.

I also like my daily dose of Pocket, for a curated kind of news feed.

What do you think is unique about the way you approach your work?
For me it’s always been about great storytelling. If you really want to emotionally connect to people, you’ve got to harness this. 

What responsibility do you have in a typical day? What takes up most of your time?
I would say more than half of my time is taken up by meetings. Either presenting work, taking feedback, pre-production meeting or reviewing creative ideas. 

Where do your best ideas come from?
Definitely not from advertising. 
I’ve always believed that the best ideas come from observing life, having lots of interests and being present in the world. My most successful ideas have come from insights out of life experiences.

What has been the most transformational business practice you’ve implemented at your work?
I have ‘coffee catch ups’ with individual creative teams each week. I find this ‘one-on-one’ meeting time enables me to keep track on how people are really feeling. 

What social or environmental issues inform the work you do, as well as what you’re aiming to do with your company’s overall vision?
As a NZ owned company, we’ve put a lot of focus on helping NZers. During lockdown we recognised that small and medium sized businesses were suffering terribly, so we launched the ‘Support local’ campaign which was very rewarding to see consumers embrace. 

What’s the most enjoyable part of your day?
Spending time with Nikki and my two awesome boys, Leo and Arlo.

What about the least enjoyable?
When clients use the creative work to figure out what they want.

Do you have any side hustles you’re juggling alongside being an entrepreneur?
Yes I do! 
I’ve co-founded a new platform with Julie Spedding called MyPitchlist.co.nz.
It’s a site that lets property sellers pitch their property out to real estate agents, who then compete to win it as a new listing. 

We’ve been working on it for about 18 months with lots of late nights and weekends to get it up and running. We launched in October and have been blown away by how well received it’s been by both agents and sellers.

What’s your best productivity hack?
I work out what’s the most important thing to do each day and try to tick that off first.

Do you get stressed? If so, how do you manage it? Do you practice any mindfulness or meditation?
People say I always seem calm, but the truth is I do get stressed. However, I think giving into stress ends up clouding your mind from thinking of the solution. If I’m getting a bit wound up, I find going for a bike ride clears my head.

What do you do once you get home? Can you switch off?
I’m straight into ‘Dad mode’ when I walk in the door until about 7.30pm, then Nikki and I get to spend some time together. However, we often have an hour of evening work to catch up on which isn’t ideal but comes with the territory of our jobs.

What do or don’t you eat or drink to maintain your performance throughout the day?
My usual ‘go-to’ is sushi for lunch, and a mid-afternoon coffee if I’m struggling.

What time do you go to sleep? How many hours sleep do you try to get each night? Any special techniques for a good night’s rest?
I’ve suffered from insomnia for years as I find it hard to quieten down my mind, it’s always whirring away with ideas. However, over recent years my sleeping has improved, I use the term ‘improved’ loosely as now I’ve started to snore a bit which isn’t so popular.
 

Typically, around 7

What kind of work do you do?

I am one of two managing partners at Dovetail. Dovetail designs, builds, grows, and invests in technology firms across Australia, NZ, and the US. As an example, we’ve helped design and build Afterpay’s consumer-facing web and mobile platforms and have helped them grow by more than 50x since we started working together in 2017.

My day to day involves strategy, sales, hiring, investment decisions and advising clients.

What’s the ideal way to start your day?

First a strong espresso then exercise – either a surf or going for a run.

Do you have any morning rituals?

Coffee and exercise. The exercise is occasionally skipped, the coffee never.

How soon do you begin doing work-related things each morning, such as checking your phone or emails?

I will typically open my phone and check Slack as soon as I wake up for a quick pulse check on the day. After exercising is when I’ll dig into emails.

What’s your media consumption or interaction like – which podcasts, radio, videos, books, magazines, and new sites do you read or listen to?

My content consumption has gotten more varied over time. I’ve always been interested in business and investment strategy and will read everything from dry textbooks to autobiographies, business advice books and fiction favourites such as Trent Dalton and George Orwell. I prefer physical books, magazines, and newspapers as I spend enough time looking at a screen when I work.

I listen to podcasts primarily when I’m running or driving. Some are related to work, some are pure entertainment. I’m a sucker for a true crime series and love NPR podcasts especially How I Built This. For work, I tend to follow This Week in Startups.

What do you think is unique about the way you approach your work?

From the day we started Dovetail we wanted to see what we could build if we really focused on creating one great company over 30 years. We wanted to build something lasting, something that would outlive us.

This long-term focus influences a lot of what we do at Dovetail from who we hire, how we measure success and how we plan.

What responsibility do you have on a typical day? What takes up most of your time?

We have a fantastic team at Dovetail that handles a lot of the day-to-day running of the firm. My co-founder Ash and I are focused on what we need to do to continue to double the size of the firm while ensuring Dovetail improves with scale rather than deteriorates with scale.

Apart from things like strategy, investment decisions and key hires, I also help find new clients. We’re quite picky about who we work with and say no to about 95% of leads which means we end up investigating a lot of opportunities before we find the ones we truly believe in and think are a good fit.

Where do your best ideas come from?

I find exercise is hugely linked with my ability to think clearly. I’ll often get good ideas during or just after exercising.

Reading’s also a good source of ideas. When you’re reading, you’re relaxed and consuming a variety of new ideas. I find reading can prompt new ideas or solutions to current business problems I’m trying to solve.

What has been the most transformational business practice you’ve implemented at your work?

Many firms have incentive alignment issues with their customers and with their own employees. This can affect their ability to attract and retain great people and clients. Our work requires a trusted relationship with our clients and exceptional talent to pull off.

We created Dovetail Ventures, an arm of Dovetail through which we invest in the companies we work with and then redistribute the investment among our whole team. This aligns us perfectly with our clients wherein if they do well, we do well and if not, neither of us do. It also aligns our team with the impact of their work. Rather than just getting a salary, they also own shares in the fast-growing companies we work with. This has been instrumental in building great long-term relationships with clients and attracting the exceptional talent we need to be able to deliver the results we have.

What social or environmental issues inform the work you do, as well as what you’re aiming to do with your company’s overall vision?

Our core social mission is to become a key driver of innovation in New Zealand. There is so much entrepreneurial talent in this country, but the ecosystem and capital markets are less developed than many other countries overseas. We want to help build and fund the companies that will drive New Zealand’s economy.

In addition to that, we’ve helped build and invest in some companies that have strong social missions while at the same time being for-profit businesses. This allows them to scale up quickly and access capital markets to do social good. Examples include:

Provider Choice, an Australian firm which helps people with disabilities seek, manage, budget and spend funding from the government.

Grounded Packaging which is on a mission to replace the world’s plastic packaging with alternatives that are 100% reusable, recyclable or compostable.

What’s the most enjoyable part of your day?

I really enjoy learning about and analysing new company and product ideas. There’s plenty of innovation happening in almost every sector. I love trying to pull these new innovations apart and analyse them to figure out if a new project is worth investing in.

What about the least enjoyable?

I don’t really like public speaking, but I do quite a bit of it!

Do you have any side hustles you’re juggling alongside being an entrepreneur?

From a commercial perspective I pour all my effort into Dovetail, but on the side I’m also involved in helping launch a climate change not-for-profit called The Cobenefits Org. It hasn’t launched yet but is getting mighty close.

What’s your best productivity hack?

The main ones for me are: start with exercise, plan my day before I start, and work in 2-3 hour stints with Cold Turkey, a tool that disables my ability to visit any websites other than about 10 that I need for work.

Do you get stressed? If so, how do you manage it? Do you practice any mindfulness or meditation?

Sure, I sometimes get stressed. If I don’t exercise, don’t get enough sleep, go too long without eating and drink too much coffee then small problems can suddenly start to seem large. If I live relatively healthily then I can cope quite well with stress.

What do you do once you get home? Can you switch off?

I can if I work from the office, but I find it much harder when working from home which happened a lot this year due to Covid.

Going for a run, a surf or even cooking works too. You can’t think about work when you’re focusing on trying to nail that random dish that YouTube recommended you watch.

What do or don’t you eat or drink to maintain your performance throughout the day?

For me the key thing is to make sure I eat with some consistency. If I don’t do any exercise in the morning, then I don’t really get hungry until 3pm but my mood and stress levels suffer.

What time do you go to sleep? How many hours of sleep do you try to get each night? Any special techniques for a good night’s rest?

I try to get 8 hours of sleep a night. I think more clearly, handle stress better and am in a better mood if I get enough sleep. I’m not very good at falling asleep though. A good surf tires me out enough that I’ll fall asleep instantly. I’m also currently reading what’s essentially a textbook about the world’s historical debt crisis – 30 mins reading that usually does the trick.

I’m up at 5.15am. 

·What kind of work do you do?

I’m founder and CEO of IMAGR. IMAGR is a Kiwi tech company that has created the SmartCart, a frictionless checkout experience harnessing artificial intelligence to make shopping easier. Basically, it’s a shopping cart which uses AI to carefully track items you put in and take out of your trolley and automatically charges your bank account when you leave the store. This world-class AI is being built right here in New Zealand and is changing the game across the world. 

·What’s the ideal way to start your day? 

I start my day the same every day, with exercise. Most mornings with a game of tennis from 5.30-6.30am, or I switch that up with the gym. 

Do you have any morning rituals? 

Every morning I have a coffee, review my calendar and my diary. IMAGR has offices in Auckland and Osaka, Japan. I was in Japan when COVID-19 struck so I’ve been based here for the last month. We’re a few hours behind New Zealand so my current morning ritual is to first catch up with my leads back in Auckland, then dig into my diary. 

How soon do you begin doing work-related things each morning, such as checking your phone or emails? 

As soon as I wake up. We have international Board members and talk with several international groups, so like to have a browse first thing in the morning. 

What’s your media consumption or interaction like – which podcasts, radio, videos, books, magazines, and new sites do you read or listen to? 

I read a lot and share books with my team. I tend to read books about organisational psychology, habits, performance, and business-related books. I also love reading The Economist, and Harvard Business Review for articles. 

What do you think is unique about the way you approach your work? 

I’ve got a relentless belief in what we’ve created. Our product has come from countless challenges and failures throughout the years, but for every “no” I hear, I treat it as both motivation to prove them wrong, and advice for improving the next time around. I always treat “no’”’ as a “not just yet”. 

When I heard about Amazon creating a similar product with Amazon Go supermarkets, I wasn’t actually worried because I knew IMAGR tech was better – more scalable, cheaper, and easier to integrate into existing supermarkets. I had friends call me to say, “time to pack it up, Amazon just beat you” and my response was that they had just validated there was a market for frictionless checkout. 

Fortunately, this wasn’t just in my head either. When global heavyweight Toshiba Tec looked around the world for the most advanced frictionless technology to invest in, it settled on IMAGR. The core belief I have in our product gives me the drive to succeed and push past new challenges. 

What responsibility do you have on a typical day? What takes up most of your time? 

I touch all points of the business, product, finance, HR and engineering. 

We’re currently working to launch our SmartCarts in Japan with one of their largest retailers so that takes up most of my day. We focus on one rollout at a time to ensure the product and service is of the highest quality. While based in Japan a lot of my day is working with our engineers and developers back in New Zealand to ensure onboarding is going smoothly. I also liaise with our customers to understand their needs and ensure we meet all requirements, while also pursuing new leads across the globe who are keen to bring IMAGR on board. 

I keep in close contact with my team, making sure they have what they need to succeed. We’re also constantly looking for people to join the IMAGR team, so I’m always on the lookout for top talent. 

Where do your best ideas come from? 

I think the best ideas make our lives easier. Working backwards is usually best. Think of something that is an inconvenience to many people, then dream up a way around it. That’s exactly how IMAGR started back in 2015, I didn’t want to wait around in a queue at the grocery store. At the time it seemed impossible to come up with a solution. But I’ve dedicated my life to it and surrounded myself with a fantastic team. I’m thrilled that it’s now a reality and I hope that one day soon no one will be waiting in a supermarket queue. 

What has been the most transformational business practice you’ve implemented at your work? 

Our Friday all hands meeting. This is where I stand up with our leadership team every Friday afternoon and round the week out and paint a picture of where we’re moving forward. It gives the entire company insight into the business direction, the challenges, how we are tracking and provides a platform for the team to ask me any questions. 

What social or environmental issues inform the work you do, as well as what you’re aiming to do with your company’s overall vision? 

The Covid-19 pandemic has been the perfect example of how IMAGR’s SmartCart is the way of the future for bricks and mortar shopping. In a new world where social distancing and contactless tech is becoming vital, the SmartCart provides minimal person-to-person contact and cash handling, while allowing retail stores to put resources where they’re really needed like stocking shelves and ensuring cleanliness. 

What’s the most enjoyable part of your day? 

Working to see a project come to life that I’ve been envisioning for so long. 

What about the least enjoyable? 

Still having to wait in line at stores when I know there’s tech available that can eliminate it. 

Do you have any side hustles you’re juggling alongside being an entrepreneur? 

Well, IMAGR kind of is my side hustle! My path to SmartCart started when I worked full-time for an investment fund in Sydney, working on it as a side hustle in the evenings. Eventually it became my full-time gig. I encourage everyone to have a side hustle if you can manage it, you never know where it will lead to. Now I’d say my side-hustle is working with New Zealand’s tech talent and other keen entrepreneurs as a mentor to help them succeed. 

What’s your best productivity hack? 

Block your day out in time slots and make yourself accountable to someone to deliver it. I tackle the hardest problems in the morning and do a retrospective of my diary at the end of every Friday to see where I got distracted. This helps me to better forecast my time the following week. 

Do you get stressed? If so, how do you manage it? Do you practice any mindfulness or meditation? 

Exercise helps me – mainly running, hitting the gym or playing tennis. 

What do you do once you get home? Can you switch off? 

I don’t finish work until late, so I generally go home, get into bed and read for 30 minutes. I don’t feel I need to switch off as I love thinking about how we’re going to solve the problems we have ahead of us. 

What do or don’t you eat or drink to maintain your performance throughout the day? 

I just focus on keeping a balanced diet rather than eating and drinking specific things. 

What time do you go to sleep? How many hours of sleep do you try to get each night? Any special techniques for a good night’s rest? 

If anyone has tips for getting a good night’s sleep, please let me know! I aim for 6-7 hours a night if I can, but that’s not always the case.

What time do you wake up?

I normally wake between 5.30am and 6am. I live on Waiheke and catch the ferry to work in Auckland, which means no traffic jams. It’s about an hour door-to-door except for the odd day when you get some sea fog and that slows down the commute. Generally, it a pretty hassle-free way to get to work.

What kind of work do you do?

My work is varied with a focus on both long-term and short-term strategic transformation. Kiwibank has huge potential and an amazing purpose. I do everything from investment planning to strategic roadmaps that help design the bank we want for our people and customers. There is plenty of time spent meeting people from all over the business, because if doesn’t matter to them or our customers, it just doesn’t matter. So, I do a lot of listening to those who look after our customers and know them best. There is a lot of working with our teams on project delivery and change management. I get satisfaction when I’m able to see a project through and the impact that has for our people and customers is the rewarding part of my role.

What’s the ideal way to start your day?

Definitely a sleep in and hanging out with Amie, my wife. I travel quite a bit and often I’m between Auckland and Wellington during the week, so a relaxed start with a strong coffee and chilling on Waiheke is my ideal way to unwind on the weekend. I have an Italian stove top espresso machine so cranking that up, sitting on the deck, getting some sunshine and reading the paper is a great way to start the day.

Do you have any morning rituals?

Generally, I catch the 7am ferry. I always grab a coffee in my KeepCup from Harold at the ferry terminal before getting on boat. The community is diverse and vibrant with some great characters, so it makes for an entertaining morning commute.

How soon do you begin doing work-related things each morning, such as checking phone or emails?

There is something wrong if I can’t fit what I need to do into the 50 or 60 hours I’m at work. Devices can be a distraction at home and to your personal life, so I try to not to look at my work phone on weekends. On the ferry I’ve got 40 minutes to smash out emails and check the news, do some personal admin or listen to a podcast.

What’s your media consumption or interaction like – which podcasts, radio, videos, books, magazines, and new sites do you read or listen to?

• Twitter for the latest update on global soundbites. Lots out of CNN and BBC that’s interesting and makes for easy snackable insights.
• LinkedIn for making sense of what people are interested in, whether that be culture, change or technology.
• I keep across Stuff and Herald, as Kiwibank impacts the lives and businesses of many Kiwis and I like to have radar on and antenna up for change, what’s going on for people and look at what we are doing to consider those perspectives.
• The Australian Financial Review is a staple as well, while a proud Kiwi it is good to keep abreast of developments across the Tasman (except for their politics!).
• Podcasts – I’ve been listening to Serial which is hosted by Sarah Koenig and tells a true story each week – the latest is on the US Criminal Justice system. I like it as she’s genuinely interested in uncovering the story and giving insight into a totally different perspective.
• TedTalks are a good length when travelling between Auckland and Wellington.

What do you think is unique about the way you approach your work?

I started my career as a graduate in a customer-facing banking assistant role at NAB in Australia – this gave me a great insight into what it is like to be on the frontline. That’s been good from my perspective to know what it’s really like working with customers all day and the challenges our frontline staff face. I can empathise with what’s happening for our front line and what it is like if tools they are using are not up to scratch. Whilst head office can dream up lots of interesting ideas, they’re really meaningless if they don’t matter to your customers and your teammates. I also love the industry and know we can be impactful. We really can change people’s lives for the better and so we have a moral obligation to be respectful about the things we do, given that potential impact.

A lot has changed in the 20 years I’ve been in banking. It continues to be buffeted by disruption, changing customer perception and increased regulatory scrutiny. Money can be an emotive subject and can be a powerful thing. What we do is important to the fabric of New Zealand.

What responsibility do you have in a typical day? What takes up most of your time?

My responsibilities are spilt equally a third, a third, a third, up, sideways and down. I work with the CEO and board on the direction of travel, so they understand exactly where we are headed and cover the risk management considerations. The second stakeholder group is my colleagues, making sure we focus on improving the way we work and ensure we deliver to our purpose and drive positive change. Third is our strategy and innovation team, which I’m privileged to be a part of. We’re all about making the boat go faster. It’s an exciting challenge that we are all up for.

Where do your best ideas come from?

Other people! I am a leader with strong opinions, loosely held. There is no one source for a good idea so I make sure I have my radar on and antenna up. I scan globally for new technologies, team and customer experiences, and evidence that our approach is right. Sometimes I rely on my own experience and my stakeholder’s strategic aspirations, looking at the problems we are trying to solve. The best advice, I think, is to never fall in love with your own idea as you won’t see beyond it. I believe we must be prepared to adapt as new information comes to light.

What does inspiration look like for you?

There are so many different forms of inspiration. Our issues are similar to what global banks are going through. Seeing how they deal with it provides plenty of inspiration.  We have a unique customer base, and we know they like to use our branch network. I see that as a privilege and an opportunity to talk to customers – that is where the inspiration comes from. It is also great seeing fire in the belly of our people supporting the strong purpose we have: Kiwis making Kiwis better off. New Zealand wants Kiwibank to be successful. We are the challenger and want to stop a whole lot of profits going off shore, preferring to keep those here and reinvested in New Zealand’s potential.

What has been the most transformational business practice you’ve implemented at your work?

The one thing that’s made the most difference is trying something small with customers and our people and building on it. Gone are the days of big projects. People want to see change, as they interact with customers. Getting the team involved makes the difference to how an idea is embraced and developed, rather than direction from head office and a spreadsheet and ruler. It fits with the agile manifesto, which is more than a statement – it is the behaviours, rituals and change that has the most impact for our team and customers. 

What social or environmental issues inform the work you do, as well as what you’re aiming to do with your company’s overall vision?

Kiwibank has a powerful role in improving financial wellbeing. An example of this is our partnership with Kendall Flutey and the team at Banqer, which is an online tool that teaches financial literacy in classrooms across New Zealand. It is all about demystifying finance for people.

What’s the most enjoyable part of your day?

Hearing stories about the way we have delivered new capabilities, improved an experience for our team or customers or made a difference in our communities is something to be proud of. Not helping people and customers is fruitless work. Seeing or hearing a story on how we helped implement something are the moments I feel great about.

The best advice, I think, is to never fall in love with your own idea as you won’t see beyond it. I believe we must be prepared to adapt as new information comes to light.

What about the least enjoyable?

When we get things wrong for customers. Those stories where we could have done better. Those calls from customers where they have had a challenging situation, it is hard to hear when we’ve not been at our best. Making sure we have the tools in place to help our people do a better job is crucial. I don’t want to let our customers down, as every customer matters.

Do you procrastinate? Is it good or bad?

Procrastination can be a great thing, to a point. Adam Grant does a Ted Talk called The surprising habits of original thinkers. He says there is a point of procrastinating that yields best results. Procrastination can lead to great ideas, it gives you time to think rather than rushing in.

What’s your best productivity hack?

Keeping on top of my inbox so I have a good handle on what’s happening. To be productive I take a disciplined approach to delete, respond in the moment, rather than having million unread emails. Also, I know I can’t own everything. My best productivity hack is being part of an awesome team that has clear accountability and ownership of the work they do. Great communication means I’m most productive when my team is also productive.

What’s your interaction with friends and family throughout the day? Can you be both a successful executive and a good husband?

I believe in making time for things that are important. If I need to leave early for something important with family or friends I will do that and expect my team to do that also. Wellbeing is really important to be effective at work.

Do you get stressed? If so, how do you manage it? Do you practice any mindfulness or meditation?

I don’t really get stressed, after all – we’re not really saving lives. Having perspective is important, I feel like I can switch off work easily and focus on things that matter. I’ve got my health and family. Stress doesn’t help me be effective. When you have a good balance, it’s hard to unsettle. I get busy but can easily prioritise and can switch off.

What do you do once you get home? Can you switch off?

Totally, I have too. I’m at work for a decent chunk of the day so try not to think about it when at home. The ferry ride provides a great circuit breaker, so it becomes easier to forget about work when I get home. I go for a swim or drink a good glass of wine. The best things come from perspective and a break.

What do or don’t you eat or drink to maintain your performance throughout the day?

I have a normal life, and a normal diet. I (try to) drink less Monday to Wednesday. Certainly, I like food. I’ll prioritise good ingredients over quantity and love to cook. I like to know where my food comes from. I follow the food philosophy of Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall and consider welfare and sustainably when making purchases.

What time do you go to sleep? How many hours sleep do you try to get each night? Any special techniques for a good night’s rest?

I get a solid eight, which is shortened if going to gym. A good pillow helps. Carving out space early in the night is key for me – with a wife and two cats if you don’t own your space early, you can end up with the thin end of the wedge.